Div 7 7.14 11
Meta 6 4.83 10
Morf 5 6.8 10
Elem 5 11.2 21
Life 7 10 20
Mind 5 6.8 15
[1] Lyle added on Fri Dec 15 05:39:05 2006: So Urania suggested giving Magic-Users a wider range of tricks. At the moment, all you really get with the 'magic' tag is access to Magical Ability (as well as Sensitive). Urania suggested having them use the Fae Magics, but I'm a bit iffy about that; I think I'd rather they had their own XXX Craft magics. With that in mind, I started to poke around a few other folks' magic systems:
WoD Sorcerer non-Revised has Alchemy. Conjuration (teleporting), Conveyance (flying, telekinesis). Cursing. Divination, Enchantment (making magic objects). Ephemera (spirit-work). Fascination (charms and mind-control). Healing. Hellfire. Herbalism (making potions). Shadows (It's Control Shadows). Shapeshifting. Summoning/Binding/Warding. Weathercraft.
In talking with someone and trying to whittle that down, it leads to… Alchemy (making magical objects, potions, etc.. Object Craft? Talisman Craft?), Conjuration (teleporting things. Not sure about the -craft name), Conveyance (flying. Also not sure about the -craft name), Cursing/Divination (Fortune Craft), Fascination, (Mind Craft), Shapeshifting (Form Craft). Weather Craft.
..keeping in mind that Healing already exists so that's all set and that Hellfire and Ephemera and a few other bits are covered in Faithful Effects, does anything seem blatantly missing?
[2] Lyle added on Fri Dec 15 05:52:36 2006: WoD Sorcerer Revised? Changed Cursing to Fortune, added Mana Manipulation and Oneiromancy, got rid of Ephemera.
[3] Lyle added on Fri Dec 15 07:42:26 2006: The Unisystem 'Witchcraft' RPG has, on the other hand..
Psyche (control emotion), Blessing, Cleansing (anti-magic), Consecration (like WoD Mana Manip), Communion (like Focus, but draws off of the surroundings), Elemental Air, Elemental Earth, Elemental Fire, Elemental Water, Farsight, Gateway (teleporting), Insight (like Empathy/Mind Reading), Lesser Curse, Lesser Healing, Lesser Illusions, Shielding, Soul Projection (OBE), Soulfire (zapping folks), Spirit Mastery (Faithful tricks), Symbols of Protection, Warding.
[4] Thesus added on Sat Dec 16 13:03:41 2006: Ok, let me get my notes
[5] Thesus added on Sat Dec 16 22:15:52 2006: Magic as I see it is made up of really two types. We have faith based magic where we have other worldly beings. I could use the word 'gods' but I think avatars, angels, demons, devils, Cthulhu and then we have man based magic. Faith based is something that is given to you by that creature that you worship. The second is man based magic: Man based is following a proscribed formula of doing a + b = c. This is where you would get spell books, rituals, formulas and the like.
[6] Thesus added on Sat Dec 16 22:17:40 2006: Stealing directly from all sorts of mage like creations we would have and I think of them as schools of thought, more then anything else: Abjuration, protective spells. (Gene wanting to do protective amulets as an example) Alteration: Change something into something else Summoning: Call something from somewhere else to the caster. (Again, Gene's desire to do weather) Charms: Either make someone or something like you more or the ability to bestow magical essence onto a mundane item. (Gene's wanting the ability to do love philters and the like.) The latter would also be the more expensive the mundane the better a enchantment. IE, a diamond would make a better focus then say quartz. Divinations: determine the future. Illusions: exactly what it sounds like. Evocation: Channel magical energy. I also see this being the most powerful of the lot and you can combine some like either Charm and Evocation to make say Harry Dresden's Thumper like Staff
[7] Thesus added on Sat Dec 16 22:18:18 2006: Evocation is also the one that would not always need a formula: Now I know I said that man magic is a formula or what have you but there are also magical places, like gates between fae and the real world, Stonehenge might be another example. You could also direct magical energy back, say someone had the ability to throw fireballs, the mage could channel that energy away from himself and turn it into pretty, pretty butterflies. Necromancy: dealing with the dead. I'm thinking Voodoo like here. I also think there would be a group of people like Shaman's that deal with deal making with say the dead/ghosts that are different then the Anita Blake sort. They see dead people, can talk to them mainly ghosts and can make deals. "If you stop that burglar from killing that nice young lady? I'll find out where your earrings went." As an example.
[8] Thesus added on Sat Dec 16 22:18:56 2006: Fae btw do man magic but they have the ability inherently. They don't have to learn spells, but have the ability to shape the 'magic' around them, they are much more in touch with nature then man will ever be. This is my rough idea, thoughts?
[9] Lyle added on Sun Dec 17 07:14:58 2006: D&D Schools of Magic:
Abjuration (protection and/or magic-negating)
Alteration
Conjuration/Summoning (calling things or 'something from nothing')
Enchantment/Charm
Illusion/Phantasm
Invocation/Evocation (like Conjuration, but forces)
Divination
Necromancy
[10] Lyle added on Sun Dec 17 07:27:53 2006: To see how much I can translate Thesus' notions to what I'd first suggested..
Abjuration — That's my Alchemy
Alteration - Also Alchemy
Summoning - Conjuration
Charms - Part Fascination, part Alchemy
Divination - That's my Divination/Cursing
Illusion - That's my Fascination
Evocation - Didn't include that, myself.
..although I adore the idea of spell points and magical oomph one can store up (SEE: Mana points, WoD Quintessence, etc..), I'm not sure how well things like WoD's Mana Manip or Unisystem's Consecration would work when someone who doesn't come from a stat-based RPG background had to use and possibly depend on it.
[11] Thesus added on Sun Dec 17 10:59:59 2006: Right now we don't have spell points, or really anything that tells someone how to cast a spell what they can or can't do so I'm thinking we are creating this from scratch. Somehow a magic using critters ability is going to be need to tied to things like Power, Magical Ability and some stats, assuredly will power but since that really does seem to be an over used stat maybe something else, creativity? Then we have either learning, man mage based in my thought, or god given, I'm assuming what Orson is looking to do, assuming Orson does something, some day.
[12] Urania added on Mon Dec 18 12:06:52 2006: I despise "spell points", myself. I like the WoD Sorcerer stuff (how can I not?). I suggested using the Elemental Magics we've put in place for the Fae because we have them, we have them at least vaguely defined, they're a valid magical system, and it requires a minimum of additional coding and writing on our part. If folk want things to be that different I can understand that, in which case I'm strongly in favor of adapting the WoD material.
[13] Lyle added on Wed Dec 20 06:37:30 2006: Note though that as per the 'additional coding and writing'? Not so much, really. It's pretty easy to add a skill or ability to the system, and I just adore working up 'shortcut code' for funky abilities (like the +clair code, like the +raise math-code, etc..).
So it's as clear as the other lists, my 'parsed down and lumped together from WoD Sorcerer' list is..
Alchemy (Enchanting things, making charms, binding-circles, etc..)
Conjuration (rabbits out of hats, summon rabbits, etc..)
Conveyance (pretty much vampire Flight)
Cursing/Divination
Facination (magic hypnosis stuff)
Shapeshifting (Look! I'm a rabbit!)
Weather Craft
They'd also have access to Healing, and the Ephemera is covered by our Faithful effects.
[17] Urania added on Wed Dec 20 08:34:52 2006: Ahh, Conveyance. Which can cover anything from vampire-like flight, to an enchanted broomstick, to teleportation, to having the Mysterious Ability To Always Find A Taxi Instantly.
[18] Lyle added on Wed Dec 20 17:01:23 2006: With the notion I'm dabbling with, flight and broomsticks would fall under whatever we want to re-name Conveyance (the broomstick's either just a prop, or one is making it fly instead of you fly, so you can carry passengers), teleportation would fall under Conjuration (you're pretty much just conjuring yourself somewhere else instead of pulling a quarter out of someone's ear or a rabbit from a hat), and the funky taxi thing would be Cursing/Divination (pretty much hitting yourself with a rather specific and automotive-centric blessing)
[19] Lyle added on Mon Dec 25 20:43:18 2006: So if we go with Thesus' ideas..
Abjuration - Bans and Wards, magics that don't actually do anything other than repulse types of magics or types of critters/folks.
Alteration - Shapechanging of yourself or other things.
Summoning - Like WoD Conjuration, rabbits out of hats. Should attracting a <something> to you be in this, or in Abjuration (since it's pretty much anti-Abjuration)? Probably change the name to 'Conjuration' to stick with a -tion theme.
Enchantment..ation? - Making charms and magical objects. To keep the theme, it'd be nice to work up a -tion name for it.
Divination - Both standard divination as well as cursing/blessing in a luck way.
Fascination - Illusion and magical-hypnosis.
Evocation - Meta-magic. It'd pretty much be anti-magic as well as Focus.
..additionally, they'd get our old fashioned Healing, as well as the general Magical Ability for things not covered by the above stuff. Things involving demons, angels, tribal spirits, elemental spirits, ancestral spirits, ghosts, etc.. are out of their department though, instead going to Faithful and/or Necromancers.